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Es sollte eigentlich kein Geheimnis mehr sein: Häuser ohne ausreichenden Luftwechsel werden abgesehen vom gesundheitlich negativen Aspekt immer irgendwo Probleme machen. Ich habe vor kurzem mit einem Bausachverständigen gesprochen. Er meinte: die Mehrzahl der Professionisten sind noch immer auf einem Auge blind, versuchen ihre Leistungen zu verkaufen und betreiben bestenfalls Symptombekämpfung, statt endlich die Ursache an der Wurzel zu packen. 2/3 der Schadensfälle sind in den Gutachten inzwischen: Baumangel durch unzureichenden Luftwechsel und/oder falsche Beheizung. Daraus sollten wir endlich lernen! Die Grundproblematik ist, dass es zu wenige fachkundige Bauplaner gibt, die ein stimmiges Gesamtkonzept für Bauphysik und Haustechnik erstellen können. Wenn dann solche "Mängel" auftreten, wird gerne ein "falsches Nutzerverhalten" ausgewiesen.
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| Hallo leitwolf, schau mal hier im Shop nach, da siehst du Preise und wirst sicher auch fündig. | ||
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Hello, we have the same problem as most of the users here, that on the upper floor of the window inside the profile the middle seal is located, it condenses. The windows are Internorm KF520 PVC-ALU. So far they have changed the seals (same type) but the situation is the same. They currently don't have any solution, or they are unresponsive to, this. They say it's normal. Yesterday I switched off the central recuperator, in case something was different (in terms of incorrect pressures in the house) but the situation is the same. Did someone found the solution for this crap windows? BR from Slovenia  |
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Hello riflex, pretty much all the information has already been posted here to solve the problem. Let me summarize it again: every house needs planning. This starts with the drafting of the house plan, the submission plan and, ideally, with the detailed plan. In addition, an engineer's ID card must also be created in Austria. When the energy certificate is created, the energy losses are also determined. In Austria, two variants of ventilation are possible: window ventilation or controlled living room ventilation. And this is the problem begins, which Leitwolf described very well. Although the ventilation is planned for the paper, it is not explained to the user or is explained inadequately. With the result that the air exchange rate required for the house is not maintained. This also increases the vapor pressure in the room, which escapes to the outside through joints. In addition, we are building much more densely than is required by the building law. To solve this problem, we either have to ventilate according to the planning specified in the energy certificate or make the building shell more leaky so that the vapor pressure can escape. Your problem now is the situation that you have a house with the upper floor and most likely a staircase that does not separate the upper floor and the upper floor. This creates a thermal in the house that rises upwards. In nature, clouds form, in the house the warm, moist air hits cold surfaces and condenses (in old buildings, this is usually the outside corners of the wall). You probably don't have controlled window ventilation. Therefore, please check the room climate with a hygrometer and ventilate as needed. If you start doing this consistently now, it should be fine until the beginning of December. Replacing the windownseal doesn't solve the problem, just lowering the vapor pressure |
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The staircase is separate from the main part of the ground floor and upper floor. The staircase on both floors is located in a separate hallway. We do not have controlled window ventilation, but we have central ventilation with Zhender comfoq 350. It works with speed 200m3/h. According to the plans, the house has 330m3/h of intake and 300m3/h of exhaust (the remaining 30m3/h) is in the garage. Because of this difference, today I set the exhaust to 45% and the supply to 39%. The vacuum was already set before, but I increased it today and we'll see. I also increased the pressure on the seals on one window. Some Internorm dealers say that the window is properly sealed. The outer seal is intended for protection against rain (it is not 100% sealed), the middle seal it condenses is intended for sound dampening ("100" seal), and the inner seal is for airtightness ("100" seal). They say that I should remove the middle seal at the top like the outer one, so that the air will circulate. |
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You have a supply air of 330m3/h and an exhaust air of 300m3/h in the room. this means that you have a surplus of 30m3/h. This excess now escapes to the outside via joints. As long as you don't have more exhaust air than supply air, there will always be condensation in the rebate area. The problem with condensation on the window is always that everyone thinks, that the window has something. the opposite is the case. It almost always fails due to the room climate and vapor pressure. that should also be taken into account. |
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but it was the same when the ventilation was turned off for a day. now I set for the test supply air a little less than it would have been unified  |
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tries to regulate the ventilation so that the negative pressure is reduced. |
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It will take me few days to test. but @Squawvally why did condensation still there when I turned of the recuperator for 1 day? Befor I turned it of I am dried all condenzation... |
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Condensation forms because warm, moist air hits colder surfaces. You can also describe it as saying that the vapor pressure on the room side hits cold surfaces on the way out |
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that's right, then the problem is probably in the sealing that the warm internal air passes between the seals to the outside... or in the ventilation and I need to create a small negative pressure in the house. I'm waiting for lower temperature for test negative pressure. |
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It is a misconception that the windows have to be tight. Windows have a classified air permeability. This means that there is usually no problem until the point in time when the outside temperatures are warm. From the cold season onwards, warm, moist air arrives.... (see above). As long as this is not understood, any further discussion is in vain |
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